Divorce: What to Expect

In this Episode, managing attorney Regina Campbell goes into depth on what to expect when filling for divorce.

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The Campbell Law Group P.A. while representing clients whether in civil, corporate, commercial, employment, or family law matters, our company’s primary goal is first to help clients minimize the need for unnecessary litigation and conflict where possible. 

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Transcript

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0:05

hi welcome back everybody

0:07

uh this is a season one episode two of

0:09

the legal zone

0:10

brought to you by the campbell law group

0:12

i'm regina campbell

0:14

and today we're gonna talk to you about

0:15

getting a divorce

0:17

uh some of you out there might be going

0:19

through a divorce or have been through a

0:20

divorce so you might be able to relate

0:22

to some of the stuff that we're going to

0:23

talk about today

0:25

but i think it's really important to

0:26

maybe understand what to expect from a

0:28

divorce

0:29

and even if you have been divorced

0:31

actually if you're going through a

0:32

second divorce you'll be surprised but

0:34

sometimes it could be very different

0:35

than the first

0:36

so there's still maybe some additional

0:37

tips that might be helpful for you

0:39

so getting a divorce it's it is one of

0:41

the major life-altering um

0:43

things that we might do in one of our

0:45

lives you know it's up there with the

0:46

stressful events

0:47

just as like a death or a move but it is

0:50

doesn't mean that it has to be

0:52

life-ending

0:53

or life-changing to the extent that um

0:57

you know everything comes to an end or

0:59

it's difficult you know it's

1:01

you know it's uncertainty and it just

1:02

changes your life you still

1:04

continue to be you you still continue to

1:07

have your children together if you do

1:08

have them together

1:09

we're going to go on in life and it's

1:11

important for you to know what to expect

1:13

in this process

1:14

so that you can actually hopefully come

1:16

out of it in good shape

1:18

and not just from a legal point of view

1:20

but from a personal point of view

1:22

so as someone that has been through a

1:23

divorce and actually very difficult

1:25

divorce

1:26

i can relate also from a personal level

1:28

not just as an attorney

1:30

but today we're going to come to a

1:31

little bit more and explain a little bit

1:32

more as an attorney what to expect

1:34

so whether or not it's possible you

1:36

might have been served

1:39

with papers in which case you

1:42

your partner you know whether it's your

1:44

husband or your wife

1:45

is actually already gone through the

1:47

process of starting with a call a

1:48

petition

1:49

a petition for dissolution so um

1:53

might be a surprise may not be a

1:54

surprise might have been something you

1:55

expected

1:56

sometimes in this process in the

1:58

petition you're going to notice that

1:59

it's going to indicate

2:00

what kind of relief that they're looking

2:01

for that may even be a surprise

2:04

but we'll talk a little bit more about

2:05

it doesn't always mean what it seems to

2:07

it's what it seems to be

2:09

saying in the petition and why sometimes

2:11

you do need to plead everything that is

2:13

required

2:14

um in order to preserve your rights but

2:16

it doesn't necessarily mean that the

2:18

your spouse is going to be entitled to

2:20

all of these

2:21

claims or allegations and potentially

2:23

they might have just put some of the

2:24

information in there

2:25

as needed from a legal sufficiency basis

2:29

this sometimes catches people by

2:30

surprise when they may have talked to

2:32

their spouse before the petition

2:34

and then they see the petition and they

2:35

say wow what is all this stuff in here

2:37

you know for instance we talked about no

2:39

alimony between each other

2:41

and hear the petition request alimony so

2:44

sometimes that's actually a function of

2:46

just the legal sufficiency or the

2:47

necessity potential of an attorney also

2:49

to preserve those rights for you in the

2:51

event you guys do not reach an agreement

2:53

so it's not always reason to be very

2:54

concerned but

2:56

let's take a step back for a moment

2:57

let's say you do not expect you were not

2:59

aware that your partner was going to

3:01

file for divorce

3:03

so in those circumstances the shock

3:06

alone and the

3:06

sort of um disbelief can take over quite

3:09

significantly and be very emotional and

3:11

understandably so this is a time when

3:14

actually to take a step back and not

3:16

react

3:17

immediately whether you know talking to

3:19

the other spouse

3:20

or going off um in a disarray it's

3:23

actually time to stop and think

3:25

about how you're going to react and

3:26

really what is going on okay

3:28

it is also a time to consult with an

3:30

attorney most of the time

3:32

you only have about 20 days in those

3:34

states in florida

3:35

for instance to actually file some kind

3:37

of motion for extension or an

3:38

answer in order to preserve your rights

3:41

under the petition

3:42

and at this time you also want to

3:44

consider whether you want to file

3:45

counter claims

3:46

which might be you know preserving your

3:48

rights to alimony

3:50

child support or certain medical

3:51

distributions also

3:53

that might be different than what your

3:54

partner had actually or your spouse had

3:56

actually requested

3:58

so taking a step back that's important

4:00

there's a time

4:01

sensitivity issue here if you are served

4:03

you want to make sure that you're

4:04

complying with the summons and the

4:06

required time period in which to respond

4:08

that's on a legal basis from a personal

4:11

as i indicated basis basically

4:13

just want to take a moment and breathe i

4:14

know it might be sort of

4:17

leave you without breath especially if

4:18

you're not expecting it but stop and

4:20

think about really what this may mean

4:22

and also you want to consider getting

4:25

potentially psychological help support

4:27

from your family although i'm going to

4:29

caution you from

4:30

trying to compare your case or your

4:32

potential life to some other divorce or

4:34

some other friends case and

4:36

or listening to stories about how

4:38

so-and-so

4:39

susie's husband did this some left susie

4:42

on the street

4:43

or you know susie left the husband on

4:45

the street and got everything

4:47

i would caution you against listening to

4:48

those stories as in the legal world

4:50

there's never there's very rarely

4:52

anything apples to apples so to speak

4:53

and everyone's life

4:54

and situation is very distinct so that's

4:57

step one

4:58

that's the petition stage that's sort of

5:00

a legal first step

5:02

now there are times in which people

5:03

might actually plan for divorce actually

5:05

might discuss it

5:06

and do it on a neutral basis uh

5:08

potentially follow joint petitions or

5:10

already have an idea how they want to

5:13

split their assets

5:14

or figure out the rights between each

5:16

other and in which case that actually

5:18

might make this process a little bit

5:19

easier and the petition

5:20

just becomes sort of the vehicle in

5:22

which you actually accomplished the

5:24

divorce

5:25

but the majority of the conversation

5:26

would happen beforehand

5:28

um a little bit more about that when i

5:30

we're going to talk a little bit about

5:31

coming to an agreement

5:32

you know it's a little bit further along

5:34

in the process one of the other things

5:36

you also want to

5:37

take into consideration when you think

5:38

about divorce or there

5:40

or there's been a divorce filed is any

5:42

administrative orders or rules

5:44

most states require sort of the

5:46

maintenance of a status quo

5:47

you want to be careful that you don't

5:49

have one of the parties starting to

5:51

empty out a bank account

5:52

or canceling health insurances life

5:54

insurances homeowners insurance

5:56

you know stopping to pay the mortgage

5:58

these are all sides that you're actually

5:59

going to have to act quickly

6:01

whether you are the petitioner or the

6:02

respondent courts

6:04

do not usually have the ability to act

6:07

very quickly when someone needs a

6:08

temporary support or relief

6:10

so from this point even from the moment

6:12

you file even a motion for support or

6:14

relief it could take at least three

6:15

four five months for a hearing to

6:17

actually occur on the issue

6:19

so part of is you want to consider plan

6:22

b also in the event that your spouse

6:23

does something like that hopefully they

6:25

do not they're supposed to maintain the

6:26

status quo

6:27

but unfortunately particularly in

6:29

contentious divorces i find that is a

6:31

source

6:31

to how can we say gain um bargaining

6:35

power

6:35

is by trying to starve out the other

6:37

party particularly if the other party

6:38

doesn't have access to

6:40

some of the marital funds to be able to

6:42

hire an attorney

6:43

it may be the less sophisticated party

6:45

as far as in terms of money

6:47

or knowing where the money is basically

6:49

so these are kind of telltale signs you

6:51

want to keep an eye out

6:52

you know the beginning of a divorce or

6:54

divorce proceedings

6:56

this can actually occur throughout the

6:57

divorce proceeding it might have started

6:59

off nice and then

7:00

it gets ugly when the other person

7:01

doesn't get its way

7:03

in most cases i find that reasonable

7:05

people can reach a solution and kind of

7:07

uh you know find a balance in between

7:09

not to sort of destroy everything that

7:11

you may have guys have created

7:12

and particularly disrupt the children if

7:14

there are children but a little bit more

7:16

about how to deal with those type of

7:17

difficult spouses

7:19

or situations a little bit later on in

7:21

the podcast

7:22

so um usually in most states and in

7:25

florida specifically they're going to

7:26

require you to fill out financial

7:28

affidavits

7:29

which is basically indicating what your

7:31

financial circumstances and income is

7:33

under penalties of perjury

7:34

and of course required to produce the

7:36

minimum certificate you know it's

7:38

called a certificate of mandatory

7:39

disclosures which is the minimum

7:40

documents that must be exchanged between

7:42

the parties

7:44

so that's usually the next step in

7:45

addition to the fact that the court is

7:46

going to look into resolving any

7:48

temporary issues

7:49

if someone's moving out of the house you

7:51

may want to come up with temporary sort

7:53

of child support i mean not just child

7:54

support but time

7:55

sharing in florida we have time sharing

7:57

versus custody uh sort of arrangements

8:00

so that we can try to

8:01

have the least amount of disruption

8:02

possible for the family unit

8:04

uh particularly with children that are

8:06

not have no control over this and are

8:08

sort of in the middle and it's something

8:10

to be very cognizant of

8:12

and try to be as reasonable as you guys

8:16

can and bounce and

8:16

of course never involve the children in

8:18

these issues or discussions about

8:20

divorces or anything else going on

8:22

try to minimize their involvement on any

8:24

of this so that's

8:26

something else we'll also talk about

8:27

shortly but if you're having any of

8:29

these temporary issues they do need to

8:30

be mentioned early on in the case you do

8:32

not want to let the case go on

8:35

much further without getting some of

8:36

those temporary issues resolved

8:38

in cases where the parties stay together

8:40

and there's amicableness so to speak

8:42

uh i guess i'll make up a word there you

8:44

know you can go ahead and uh

8:46

a lot of times things will continue the

8:48

same each party will sort of do their

8:50

parental

8:50

roles and duties as they always did and

8:54

you will go through the process

8:55

basically the financials and kind of

8:57

come to

8:57

some kind of you know arrangement or to

8:59

go to trial but it will be handled a

9:01

more amicable basis

9:03

something else to keep in mind temporary

9:05

issues also include attorney fees

9:07

you want to make sure that you have the

9:08

right to attorney fees and to access to

9:10

money

9:11

so that you can't afford your own

9:13

attorneys not to protect your interest

9:16

in florida each party is entitled to

9:18

sort of similar type of attorneys

9:20

as the other party may have sometimes

9:21

you see one attorney has a hundred

9:23

thousand dollars to spend and the other

9:25

party might have gone through four

9:26

attorneys trying to get someone to take

9:28

the case basically

9:30

uh because they can't afford to pay

9:31

retainer or pay for attorney fees until

9:34

the court awards them so in most often

9:37

some of the

9:38

urgent situations you actually may find

9:40

yourself in might actually be for

9:41

emotion fraternities that you want to

9:43

consider

9:44

okay um next we kind of go on to sort of

9:47

the discovery stage so to speak of what

9:49

to expect

9:50

in a divorce and in a divorce basically

9:53

discovery is just sort of investigations

9:55

of what each party has it might be

9:57

beyond the minimals

9:58

just to find out what each what there

10:00

might be if there has been any extra

10:02

marital affairs is there any

10:04

portion of the marital assets to be

10:05

recovered is there any non-marital

10:07

assets that potentially have a marital

10:09

component to it that need to be divided

10:11

or is it to be left separate marital

10:14

assets determine evaluations

10:16

you know contributions to them

10:18

throughout the marriage especially after

10:19

mixed assets which is marital and

10:21

non-marital

10:22

and basically just figure out how you're

10:24

going to handle

10:25

sort of distributions which might

10:27

include a mortgage that you both might

10:28

be on

10:29

and what do we do now if we decide to

10:31

sell the house or if one of the parties

10:33

keeps the house what do we do

10:34

basically but one party's name is still

10:37

on the mortgage and can affect that

10:38

party's ability to go get another house

10:41

so these are things that get work

10:42

through sort of uncovered and sort of

10:44

organized during discovery

10:46

and unfortunately there's um it's ripe

10:48

for you know difficult cases where

10:50

people to hide money

10:52

someone's mother is holding on to their

10:54

older money throughout the marriage or

10:55

been

10:56

giving them assets or gifts so to speak

10:59

it becomes more complicated and can lead

11:01

to you know potentially protracted

11:03

litigation if you have some of those

11:04

issues

11:06

where money has gone missing or there's

11:07

been some shenanigans or potentially

11:09

even money being hidden within companies

11:11

so maybe under retained earnings

11:14

deferred compensations

11:16

international holding companies sort of

11:18

layered circumstances that require an

11:20

attorney and potentially even a forensic

11:22

accountant to

11:23

kind of help you unravel not just what

11:26

your distribution or your echo

11:27

distribution

11:28

may be from that particular company but

11:30

also what income might be available for

11:31

purposes of aluminium child support that

11:33

are sort of hidden under layers

11:35

as i like to call them so that's kind of

11:37

the discovery also this is where if you

11:38

have child

11:39

time sharing issues or parental

11:40

responsibility issues you also

11:43

conduct sort of evidence gathering

11:45

that's what we call the discovery

11:47

about the fitness of each parent so to

11:50

speak to be able to take care of the

11:51

children

11:52

whether it's on a 50 50 basis or whether

11:55

you want to

11:56

suggest that the other party has less

11:58

time with the children due to

11:59

job constraints or their inability maybe

12:01

to really

12:02

help do the children's responsibilities

12:04

such as take them to extracurriculars

12:06

and doctor's appointments

12:07

so this is the time also in some of that

12:09

investigation might be done

12:11

and the same thing with alimony alimony

12:13

during this time is basically

12:15

sort of discovery becomes a function of

12:17

the elements of what you have to prove

12:18

in order to get alimony if

12:20

if you are a potential candidate for

12:22

alimony

12:23

or your what your spouse's so allen

12:25

money is basically a function of need

12:27

and ability

12:28

so a need is does the other spouse have

12:31

a need

12:32

for income or a supplement of income in

12:35

order to be able to maintain

12:36

a similar lifestyle as that spouse had

12:38

during the marriage or

12:40

the party side during the marriage so

12:42

and then the other aspect and that's

12:43

figuring out what that is

12:45

how much is it that they need to have to

12:47

be able to live in the similar

12:48

sort of lifestyle i did during the

12:50

marriage and you know this

12:51

unfortunately it's also an area that can

12:53

be litigated uh you know

12:55

at one point someone thinks that they

12:56

used to live in a mansion and had five

12:58

maids and of course their alien money

12:59

needs are fairly high

13:01

or you can have the circumstances when

13:02

the other spouse thinks that the

13:04

other that the spouse's needs are

13:06

basically you know

13:07

tantamount to you know if you have food

13:10

and water that's all that you need

13:12

uh in order to maintain the lifestyle

13:13

the marriages of course is not often the

13:15

case

13:16

so the truth usually lies somewhere in

13:17

the middle but this is a time in which

13:19

you gather

13:20

evidence in order to you know uh

13:23

meet your burden as to what the needs

13:24

may be and of course the other side is

13:26

going to argue against them

13:27

so this is the time that you might

13:28

gather evidence related to alimony

13:30

you also may want experts also forensics

13:32

that might help you assist

13:34

in what they call a lifestyle analysis

13:36

the other half of alimony is also

13:38

ability

13:38

so you have to show that the other party

13:40

still has the ability to pay the alimony

13:42

even if you are entitled to or have a

13:44

need

13:45

once again discovery about income you

13:47

know evidence gathering does it you know

13:49

often unfortunately we call it divorce

13:51

poverty the

13:52

one of the one or both of the parties

13:53

all of a sudden become sort of poor

13:56

or starting to make a significant amount

13:57

less money uh right you know right

13:59

before the divorce or during the divorce

14:01

in order to try to avoid or reduce their

14:03

alimony and child support obligations

14:05

this is a lot of the stuff that you're

14:06

going to go through in discovery

14:08

and for the most part you know this is

14:10

sort of that's the evidence gathering

14:12

stage

14:13

and throughout this entire time just to

14:14

kind of go back to the human side the

14:16

personal side

14:17

it's usually a very difficult time

14:19

you're asked very difficult question

14:20

jurassico gathered documents

14:22

from years previous

14:25

unfortunately it's also ripe for

14:27

harassment in some respects just asking

14:29

for things that might be

14:30

you know way to the left and way to the

14:31

right it's very important that you have

14:33

a support

14:34

you know network you have people to lean

14:35

on to help you with the children

14:37

and that you breathe you remain calm and

14:39

just try to think about really

14:40

objectively as

14:41

much as you can this is just part of the

14:44

process this is what's going on stop and

14:45

think about

14:46

sort of the big picture items and just

14:48

remember it will pass as difficult as it

14:50

may

14:51

seem everything passes in life

14:55

so most of the time with this you know

14:58

it's starting to get expensive into

14:59

cases hopefully the attorneys have had

15:01

discussions about potentially cutting

15:03

through some of the

15:04

red tape looking at big picture items

15:06

and considering potentially settling

15:09

and especially now that you might have

15:10

more information in order to be able to

15:11

make that determination and whether or

15:12

not you settle over does this make sense

15:14

really to take this to court

15:16

so hopefully you're also leaning

15:17

yourself into potentially going to

15:18

mediation

15:20

okay if you go into mediation that's you

15:23

know most of the time 90

15:24

of the cases settle the mediation but

15:26

it's important to go into mediation with

15:27

enough information to actually settle

15:29

the case if you go into mediation

15:30

without having

15:32

at least a reasonable amount of the

15:33

discovery done where you feel confident

15:35

that you have a handle on

15:36

your assets the children's issues

15:38

alimony income

15:39

you really might just be doing it

15:40

prematurely and setting yourself up

15:42

potentially

15:42

either for a bad agreement or not being

15:46

able to settle

15:46

and losing the opportunity in which

15:48

order to do so usually after mediation

15:51

also comes trial trial is usually

15:53

or it's around the corner trial can

15:54

become extremely expensive

15:56

when you have to start establishing

15:58

trial exhibits

15:59

uh witnesses depositions uh paying for

16:02

deposition transcripts it can become

16:04

it's actually a very uh very costly

16:06

process

16:07

those probably most of the reason why a

16:09

lot of the cases do settle in mediation

16:10

also

16:12

and to take a so take a moment also to

16:14

go back so mediation also is helpful

16:16

if you understand that

16:20

no one they say a good bargain is no one

16:22

is completely happy

16:23

so you have to understand what your best

16:25

in court and your worst day and court

16:26

potentially is

16:28

and try to put your feet down on the

16:29

ground and try to make a find a

16:31

reasonable balance in between

16:33

it's not a happy place to be in

16:35

litigation it's a very difficult from a

16:36

psychological financial point of view

16:38

and emotional

16:40

and throughout all this conversation

16:41

we're having the difficulties that we're

16:43

talking about and evidence gathering and

16:45

you know papers and what do the

16:46

petitions say and someone said this

16:48

about me when it's not true how can they

16:50

say that about me

16:51

and you're going through all these

16:52

allegations and these difficulties

16:53

remember your children

16:54

depending on their age they're sitting

16:56

there going through this with you even

16:57

if you try to hide it

16:59

they can always feel it they see the

17:00

difference of course they feel the

17:01

difference the family unit is not the

17:03

same

17:04

so you want to consider also you know

17:06

making sure the children are not around

17:08

when you have these conversations or

17:09

conversations with adults

17:11

making sure they're not being used as

17:12

messengers if they need to they should

17:14

be

17:14

sent to family therapist so they can be

17:16

able to talk about their feelings

17:18

with a neutral third party so they don't

17:20

feel worried about hurting one of the

17:22

parents

17:22

sort of feeling so to speak depending on

17:24

what's going on

17:25

and keep an eye on their emotional

17:27

psychological needs as well

17:29

so throughout this process it's

17:30

something that you want to keep in mind

17:32

and if your other party is also

17:34

involving the children you need to

17:36

consider whether or not you need to take

17:37

immediate action to sort of eliminate

17:38

the

17:39

the interference with one with with your

17:41

rights or potentially the harm that's

17:42

occurring to the children

17:44

so something else to keep in the back of

17:46

your mind

17:47

so here we are i've just briefly just

17:50

gone through

17:50

you know i have additional podcasts i

17:52

kind of take apart each different stage

17:54

and sort of different elements within

17:55

each stage

17:56

but today i'm coming to the end here and

17:58

sort of we're talking about trial

18:00

trial is at the end of the day you are

18:02

leaving

18:03

your lives in the hands of a judge to

18:05

make a decision as to what is the best

18:07

thing for you and your children

18:10

the judges will do their best as they

18:12

always do but judges will tell you

18:13

themselves

18:14

you guys know what's better for you and

18:16

your children than i necessarily would

18:19

if i have to i'll make a decision i'll

18:21

listen to all the evidence how it's

18:22

presented and hopefully i will make the

18:23

best decision for you

18:25

but ultimately the best thing would be

18:27

is if the parties can come to a

18:29

resolution themselves

18:30

and talk about it and find the right

18:32

balance for their family

18:34

whether from an economical point of view

18:35

but also from a custody and time

18:37

sharing and frontal responsibility point

18:39

of view remember at the end of the day

18:41

this is only part of your life

18:42

you will go on to have a post-divorce

18:44

life so you don't you know that what you

18:46

do now and all the difficulties you

18:47

occur

18:48

is going to limit potentially your

18:50

post-divorce life

18:51

and add or subtract if it's done

18:55

reasonably you'll subtract your

18:56

headaches from the post-divorce life if

18:58

you know if it's been very contentious

19:00

and difficult it's going to add to

19:01

difficulties that you carry on to the

19:03

post-divorce life

19:04

so any judge will tell you the best

19:07

thing to do is if you guys can make a

19:08

decision on your own and come to an

19:09

agreement it's always better

19:10

if not the judge will have to make a

19:12

decision based on the evidence

19:14

what they think is best for you and your

19:15

family whether it is or is not

19:18

so it's something to consider uh trial

19:20

is she's sitting like you see on tv

19:22

you're sitting in the stand

19:24

you know you're testifying you're having

19:25

to bring friends most of the time

19:27

children will not be brought into a

19:28

court or brought as a witness

19:30

if you have a type of case that requires

19:32

the children to be involved or

19:34

the children are being you know severely

19:36

sort of put in harm's way whether it's

19:37

psychological or emotional or physical

19:39

a guardian will be appointed and the

19:41

guardian potentially will be there as

19:42

well

19:43

along with other experts but it's not

19:45

like a tv in the sense that well

19:47

johnny said that you said you're having

19:50

an affair with somebody that

19:51

doesn't work that way that's hearsay you

19:53

have to bring in evidence you have to

19:54

you have to authenticate

19:55

documentation a lot of the stuff you

19:57

think that's going to come in probably

19:58

will not be heard or can be considered

20:00

by a court

20:01

so these are all things you really need

20:02

to understand and they're not easy to

20:04

hear a lot of my clients when they hear

20:06

me say this they're just like

20:08

wait this isn't rational logical and it

20:10

is because if you understand you know in

20:12

a lot of cases i'll agree some things

20:13

may not seem rational logical

20:15

but they're based on rules of evidence

20:16

and a mess ability to make sure that

20:18

what's being presented to the court is

20:20

competent and not tainted so to speak in

20:23

any way so that we

20:24

um it can't be johnny said susie said

20:27

out of court this one day because we

20:28

really don't know what susie said unless

20:30

he's in the courtroom to be able to

20:31

testify so it has to be based on within

20:33

the

20:34

you know evidence presented within the

20:35

rules of evidence which becomes starts

20:36

become very expensive and subpoena in

20:38

people and making sure they're present

20:40

and so forth and that could be really

20:42

complicated in international cases

20:44

you know where you have jurisdictions

20:45

and and you know houses and

20:48

children flying traveling everywhere

20:49

living in different spots during the

20:50

marriage

20:51

so it's just something to consider but

20:53

hopefully i've given you some idea of

20:54

what to expect

20:55

you know really from a legal technical

20:57

point of view and hopefully somewhat

20:58

from a human point of view

21:00

um i want to thank you all for tuning in

21:02

again and for for joining us we're going

21:04

to have our third

21:05

uh you know episode coming up i think in

21:08

a week or two we'll go ahead and

21:09

announce it and i just want to i hope

21:11

you know i hope this has been helpful

21:14

thank you for joining us this week in

21:16

our podcast and we should be uh please

21:18

join us for our next podcast that'll be

21:19

coming up soon i think in the next week

21:21

or two

21:22

uh please make sure you follow us on our

21:23

social media pages and subscribe to our

21:25

youtube channel

21:27

we look forward to seeing you next time

21:28

thank you