Principal Attorney of the Campbell Law Group, Regina Campbell, discusses International Arbitration & Litigation: The Importance of a Governing Law & Venue Clause with Guest Speaker James Claxton.
James Claxton, Professor of Law at Rikkyo University in Tokyo, is an active independent arbitrator and mediator specializing in commercial and investment disputes. His extended experience in international arbitration would be insightful to our audience.
The Campbell Law Group P.A. while representing clients whether in civil, corporate, commercial, employment, or family law matters, our company’s primary goal is first to help clients minimize the need for unnecessary litigation and conflict where possible.
Contact us by calling our office at (305) 460-0145 or emailing us at service@thecampbelllawgroup.com.
Principal Attorney of the Campbell Law Group, Regina Campbell, discusses International Arbitration & Litigation: The Importance of a Governing Law & Venue Clause with Guest Speaker James Claxton.
James Claxton, Professor of Law at Rikkyo University in Tokyo, is an active independent arbitrator and mediator specializing in commercial and investment disputes. His extended experience in international arbitration would be insightful to our audience.
The Campbell Law Group P.A. while representing clients whether in civil, corporate, commercial, employment, or family law matters, our company’s primary goal is first to help clients minimize the need for unnecessary litigation and conflict where possible.
Contact us by calling our office at (305) 460-0145 or emailing us at service@thecampbelllawgroup.com.
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[Music]
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hi good afternoon everybody I want to
0:15
welcome everyone back to the episode
0:17
three of season two the legal zone I’m
0:20
your host Regina Campbell
0:22
and I have the pleasure today to bring
0:24
our second part of three-part series
0:26
regarding international arbitration and
0:28
litigation on the importance of
0:30
governing law clauses
0:32
I also have the pleasure we'll take a
0:34
step back for a moment last if you
0:36
recall the first part we had Mr.
0:38
George Bermann on the line so to speak
0:41
that talked to us a little bit about um
0:43
and gave us pointers and tips to take
0:45
into consideration when entering into an
0:47
international business transaction
0:49
an agreement as well as the importance
0:51
of understanding the legal issues that
0:53
one should consider when drafting a
0:55
governing law and venue clause so
0:58
we're hoping today to bring you a second
1:00
expert and you can see him on the line
1:02
I’m going to introduce him because he has
1:03
an amazing background and I think it'll
1:05
lend itself to understand information
1:09
and the tips he's giving us the
1:10
importance of it and the rarity of it to
1:12
help us practitioners and business
1:13
people alike
1:15
our guest today is James Claxton he
1:17
graduated from Tulane university law
1:19
school he has an LLM an international
1:22
business law from the London school of
1:24
economics and political science
1:26
he's an accredited by leading
1:28
arbitration and mediation institutions
1:30
in Asia
1:31
and he specializes in commercial and
1:32
investment disputes under civil and
1:35
common law
1:36
as well as investment treaties arising
1:38
particularly from commercial
1:39
communications construction
1:42
engineer investments intellectual
1:43
property and transportation services
1:46
Mr. Claxton is also a full-time academic
1:49
in Japan outside of his practice he is a
1:51
professor of law with Seda
1:58
and a member of the adjunct faculty of
2:01
white and case international arbitration
2:03
LLM at the university of Miami
2:05
welcome Mr. Claxton and thank you for being
2:07
our back guest today
2:08
it is a great pleasure and i commend you
2:11
on this initiative your range is
2:13
really extraordinary in the types of
2:15
legal issues that you're taking on so
2:17
congratulations this is a great project
2:20
thank you thank you it's and it's
2:21
we're going to be being in Miami it's
2:23
becoming so much more of an
2:24
international hub and i think it's so
2:26
important for us to understand
2:28
not just as attorneys but to help our
2:30
clients our clients understand the
2:32
importance of contracts what goes into
2:34
these decisions making decisions to go
2:36
abroad
2:37
and conduct business what's involved in
2:39
it what can you do to help yourself
2:41
because it is becoming more and more a
2:43
globalized economy and world so to speak
2:46
so
2:47
so I want to so the first question I
2:49
want to ask you and this caught my
2:50
attention was investment disputes
2:53
brought under inter um
2:55
investment treaties that sound very
2:57
interesting
2:58
can you tell us
2:59
what are the various treaties that you
3:02
have experience investment treaties you
3:03
have experience with
3:05
sure, just sort of as background there
3:08
are around 3 000
3:10
treaties
3:11
bilateral investment treaties
3:14
with states on both sides the intention
3:16
of those treaties is to promote
3:18
investment then there are around 500
3:21
additional treaties that have investor
3:23
protections built into them they're not
3:25
specifically, investment treaties but
3:27
they have these investment protections
3:30
and so, I worked as an attorney on
3:33
cases involving these kinds of
3:34
investment treaties working for
3:36
parties either for states or for
3:38
investors and I also worked for an
3:40
institution in Washington called the
3:42
international center for settlement of
3:44
investment disputes and there is
3:47
basically, assisted tribunals arbitral
3:49
tribunals who were working on these
3:52
investment cases and so I’ve had
3:55
experience with about 10 different
3:57
investment treaties most of them
3:59
involving parties in Europe Asia and
4:03
Africa and also had I also had
4:05
experience on something called the
4:07
energy charter treaty which is a very
4:09
specific investment treaty in the in the
4:12
energy sector that has I think around um
4:15
50 state parties so those are a couple
4:18
of the of the different instruments that
4:19
have that I’ve worked on maybe just a
4:23
quick word I’m sure you have a very
4:24
sophisticated
4:26
audience of listeners but a quick word
4:28
about investment treaties and what makes
4:30
them
4:31
unique because they are kind of special
4:33
so, as I mentioned the investment
4:36
treaties are meant to promote investment
4:38
the early treaties were really aimed
4:40
at driving capital from the
4:43
comparatively capital
4:46
rich part of the world toward the
4:47
developing
4:48
world
4:49
now the investment treaties don't
4:51
necessarily target that dynamic there
4:54
are plenty of treaties between ums
4:56
on-balance capital importing countries
4:59
and on balanced capital exporting
5:00
countries
5:01
but the treaties are special in the
5:04
sense that they really, they, the
5:06
obligations flow in one direction it's
5:08
basically, a series of commitments made
5:10
by states that intends to encourage
5:14
investment into the state something
5:17
else kind of interesting about the
5:18
treaties are they provide the possibility
5:21
for
5:23
directly between an investor and a state
5:26
so although the parties to the treaty
5:29
obviously are states or countries
5:32
they do provide the possibility of
5:34
arbitration proceedings directly from a
5:36
private investor against the state
5:40
and is that to encourage investors to
5:42
want to come in so they have an idea of
5:43
what to expect or some of their game is
5:46
that what that's for
5:48
that's exactly right yeah exactly it's
5:50
really about legal certainty if there
5:52
weren't the possibility of arbitration
5:55
then the investor may be discouraged
5:57
because the best option might be either
5:59
bringing a case directly against the
6:01
state and its home courts
6:03
or trying to rely on some sort of
6:05
diplomatic protection involving his home
6:08
state in putting pressure on the state
6:09
to make amends where there's been damage
6:11
to an investment so it's really, you're
6:13
exactly right Regina it's really about
6:16
certainty and
6:17
minimizing risk in the eyes of the
6:19
investor to try and encourage the
6:21
investment
6:22
that makes make sense and I assume
6:24
it's been fairly successful with certain
6:26
countries that have
6:28
more I guess structuralized or
6:30
structured or certainty in these
6:32
treaties because the investors are more
6:34
likely to come in so that makes sense
6:36
correct
6:38
great yeah and we can we can come
6:40
on to the certainty point which is a
6:41
really interesting point maybe
6:44
one one other feature of investment
6:47
treaties that's not common it's not
6:48
specific to treaties but that is
6:50
certainly, an issue in treaties is about
6:52
legal certainty and the nature of the
6:55
commitments made by states in the
6:57
treaties are often quite vague
6:59
so, for example treaties will frequently
7:01
provide that the investors will be
7:03
treated fairly and equitably and so you
7:06
might you ask the question what
7:08
does that mean
7:09
fairly and equitably and many
7:11
tribunals have dealt with this question
7:12
what exactly is meant when a treaty
7:15
says fair so although they are meant to
7:17
promote legal certainty the nature of
7:20
the commitments in the treaties does
7:22
give rise to some interpretive questions
7:25
okay and
7:26
do these treaties usually announce which
7:28
arbitration organization will hear that
7:30
hear the dispute do they try to limit in
7:33
that way or structure procedural or
7:35
substantive sort of application of law
7:37
within those arbitration organizations
7:39
for these treaties yeah great so Regina
7:41
I think here here we have to talk about
7:43
the international center for settlement
7:44
of investment disputes because most
7:47
investment cases are brought under the
7:49
auspices of that center that center is
7:52
an organ of the world bank
7:55
and it has some really unique features
7:57
that we can talk more about but
7:59
one of the features is that it is
8:02
entirely delocalized
8:04
meaning that you know when you think
8:06
about arbitration you think about a
8:08
place of arbitration a seat of
8:10
arbitration extended proceedings most
8:13
exit proceedings do not have a seat of
8:16
arbitration
8:18
so that's just to point out that that
8:20
this is a very particular system the
8:22
exit system and it has certain
8:24
advantages that are very attractive to
8:27
investors one main one
8:29
being that enforcement of the award
8:33
should be easy
8:34
under the ixid system it's not
8:37
always easy but at least at least in the
8:40
in the exit convention the enforcement
8:42
of awards is direct there is no basis
8:45
for resisting enforcement, the way that
8:47
there would be under for example the new
8:49
York convention so that's excited and I
8:52
bring up exit because your question was
8:53
about what options investors will have
8:56
in most investment treaties exid is one
8:59
of the options that's available
9:01
and then typically there are other
9:03
options available some investment
9:05
treaties will
9:06
specifically identify institutions and
9:09
others will simply leave it too the
9:11
investors and the states to choose an
9:13
institution once a dispute arises
9:16
okay so it seems like
9:19
that would seem attractive to be able to
9:22
I mean the New York convention of course
9:23
has quite a bit of protection and some
9:25
certainty but as we were talking to Mr.
9:26
Bermann in the in part one it's still
9:29
subject to certain attacks on bias
9:31
certain ways that arbitration provisions
9:33
can be
9:35
attacked by a country
9:36
so it seemed to be more attractive to
9:39
have
9:40
bring something under sick right
9:43
yeah, exactly i think i think the
9:46
the the enforcement is one of the
9:48
reasons why parties have the choice in
9:50
the treaty they often will choose this
9:52
type of arbitration exit has other
9:56
advantages the fact that it's part of
9:58
the world bank just may suggest a level
10:01
of formality that is attractive
10:05
there are also interesting
10:07
aspects in terms of the process the
10:10
the
10:11
pricing is different than other
10:13
arbitration so there are a whole variety
10:16
of advantages to exit proceedings and so
10:19
if it's possible it's not always
10:21
possible but if the jurisdictional
10:23
requirements can be met
10:25
investors will often choose
10:27
exit proceedings over other options in
10:29
the treaties
10:31
so that kind of answers some of my other
10:33
questions that I had about so not
10:35
only just what are the differences
10:36
between the treaties and I guess we
10:38
can't get into all three thousand of
10:39
them right now
10:41
but also you know do you have the
10:44
choice to arbitrate or choose you
10:46
know governing the law or
10:49
other kind of you have the same freedom
10:51
these types of contracts that deal with
10:53
investment treaties
10:54
that you normally do under sort of the
10:56
typical western type contracts that
10:58
allow for quite a bit of contracting and
11:00
freedom to contract
11:01
right so I think the first
11:04
thing is to go back to exid so if
11:08
if the interest is whether or not the
11:10
investor can choose the place of
11:13
arbitration
11:14
if they choose exit proceedings this
11:16
particular type of proceeding we've been
11:18
talking about then there really is no no
11:20
place of arbitration it's entirely
11:23
delocalized it's an entirely
11:24
self-contained system and to be a little
11:27
bit more concrete about that so normally
11:29
if if
11:31
parties to a contract commercial
11:33
contract was selecting a seat they'd be
11:35
thinking about things like um
11:38
how
11:39
to what extent will the court
11:41
help if there's a need for help from the
11:43
courts in the arbitration for example if
11:47
one of the parties if the respondent
11:49
fails to appoint an arbitrator
11:52
can can the investor or can the
11:55
claimant or the plaintiff go to the
11:57
courts and ask the courts for help
11:59
so that's one of the ways that
12:01
that court involvement is important that
12:04
is not part of the exit system there is
12:07
no
12:07
there's not a system
12:10
the parties can can go to so
12:13
at least when talking about the exit
12:15
system the choice of seat is irrelevant
12:17
because there is no there is no formal
12:19
seat there's no place that parties can
12:21
go during the arbitration process for
12:23
assistance the other reason that seat is
12:26
important that I think you talked about
12:27
with professor Bermann and what an
12:29
honor to follow Professor Bermann
12:32
but that also is where the parties will
12:34
go if they want to try and challenge an
12:37
award in commercial arbitration
12:39
proceedings so on limited grounds if
12:42
a party is unhappy with the result of an
12:45
arbitration they can go to the courts at
12:47
the place of arbitration and they can
12:49
raise certain arguments to have the
12:50
award annulled in the exit system that's
12:53
not possible there's a
12:55
self-contained annulment process that
12:58
the
12:59
parties will go through if there is a
13:01
challenge to the award that's entirely
13:03
independent of domestic warts
13:06
okay
13:08
amazing I I do but do most do most
13:10
other I guess for the treaties we
13:12
were talking about the treaties
13:13
particularly you can choose what
13:16
arbitration seat I guess to some extent
13:17
right
13:18
if you choose another arbitration seat
13:21
do you see or another organization do
13:24
does basically the treaty itself
13:28
control or minimize the different seats
13:30
or the law the governing law within each
13:33
internet I guess investment treaty
13:35
itself
13:36
right because I know you can
13:37
sometimes choose your own arbitration
13:39
seat but does it have any what other
13:40
type of restrictions do they have
13:42
okay great so um
13:44
I guess one very basic point to make is
13:47
that of course the treaties will be
13:49
negotiated and decided by states so the
13:51
investors won't have any input on these
13:54
types of decisions at least on the on
13:56
the front end and so normally the law
13:59
that applies will be the treaty itself
14:01
which is international law in addition
14:03
to general international law
14:06
and then there may also be a provision
14:08
in the treaty that provides for
14:11
the application of domestic law in
14:13
particular circumstances
14:15
so, for example the laws of the host
14:17
state the state hosting the investment
14:20
might be relevant to the conditions for
14:22
having legal investment and so in that
14:25
case the host state law would also be an
14:28
applicable law under the treaty
14:30
and then in terms of the place of
14:32
arbitration if we're not talking about
14:34
the delocalized exit system the treaties
14:37
don't tend to specify a place of
14:39
arbitration in other arbitration
14:41
proceedings we simply leave it to the
14:43
parties once the dispute arises to
14:46
choose a seat at that point
14:48
okay so the party's still maintained
14:50
within the parameters of the treaty of
14:52
the treaty some freedom of
14:54
contracting it sounds like some
14:56
ability I’m sure there's still
14:57
conditions particularly with a country
14:59
and how much investment in the
15:01
limitations of ownership and things of
15:03
that nature but at least it sounds like
15:05
there's some room for picking governing
15:08
you know governing law and
15:09
potentially venue clauses within the
15:11
treaty
15:14
yeah indeed
15:15
certainly
15:16
certainly, venue could be something
15:18
that the party could negotiate once
15:21
the dispute arose again unless we're
15:24
talking about this very specific exit
15:26
system
15:27
right okay very interesting it's
15:29
not something I don't really hear about
15:30
so I was very excited to understand that
15:33
and you know you don't have
15:34
experience in there you don't understand
15:36
you're not seeing it sort of in the
15:37
circumstances and the surroundings to
15:39
get
15:40
to feel that as a lawyer to understand
15:42
those limitations and
15:43
definitely need to lean on someone like
15:45
you that has the experience to what
15:47
is this really like what's the practical
15:49
reality of getting involved potentially
15:51
investing in other countries
15:53
and what does this look like
15:55
so also, I want to ask you so what is
15:57
also the we also wanted to talk about
15:59
what kind of commercial cases do you
16:01
arbitrate or mediate as well
16:04
good
16:05
so personally when I was in
16:07
practice I practiced in paris for about
16:09
six years I had a general commercial
16:12
practice
16:13
dealing with a whole host of different
16:16
issues some ip issues I had
16:18
some construction disputes the last
16:20
dispute I had was over the manufacture
16:22
of a yacht I had a big construction
16:25
dispute involving a south African state
16:28
entity or sorry a north African state
16:30
entity
16:31
so I had a general commercial practice
16:34
these days I work as arbitrator and
16:36
mediator I don't do a whole lot of work
16:38
directly for clients I do some
16:40
consulting but not a lot of direct
16:42
client work and there also it's
16:45
general commercial the last
16:47
two cases that I had as arbitrator one
16:50
involved a licensing agreement a
16:52
agreement for a sports figure and
16:55
then I had a another case involving a
16:58
technology dispute so it's kind of I
17:00
have kind of a general a general
17:02
background and mediation's pretty much
17:04
the same
17:06
very much oriented in toward
17:08
commercial disputes
17:10
okay and so any tips you have um
17:13
whether you're practicing your practices
17:14
being a lawyer or an arbitrator I mean
17:16
obviously an arbitrator can't as an
17:17
advocate continues to be an advocate as
17:19
well but or a mediator when you see
17:21
you've probably seen cases where okay
17:23
this could have been more clear in a
17:24
contract or these are some of the things
17:26
that
17:27
maybe to stay on topic with the with
17:30
the podcast today something like a
17:31
governing law provision became more
17:33
complicated because of the way it was
17:35
either written or what law it defers to
17:38
when there was uncertainty in those laws
17:40
or
17:40
anything of the nature you can kind of
17:41
give us tips on because we always hear
17:43
some horror stories
17:46
right
17:47
maybe one thing that I would say
17:50
is that you know parties may be in a
17:53
position in negotiations to give
17:56
on law or to give on the place of
17:59
arbitration
18:01
and there may be a question so
18:02
strategically what what what what should
18:04
I value more
18:06
if there is this kind of a
18:07
negotiation so
18:09
my own take on this is that the place
18:13
of arbitration the choice the place of
18:15
arbitration is really important
18:18
because if the parties have to rely
18:21
on the courts for assistance during the
18:22
proceeding or if there's a challenge to
18:25
the award at the end
18:26
the courts become very very important
18:29
in the process whereas the choice of
18:31
governing law it's it also can be very
18:34
important but in my own experience um
18:38
often disputes are decided on the facts
18:40
I’m sure Regina you have had the same
18:42
experience
18:43
man even where the law is relevant in
18:46
terms of preparing and where it comes up
18:48
in cases
18:49
at least in my part of the world often
18:51
the laws in this part of Asia are based
18:54
on more familiar laws to me
18:56
from Europe and the united states so it
18:59
may not be as difficult to come up to
19:02
speed on small differences between a law
19:06
that an attorney is familiar with and
19:08
the law of the place um
19:10
the law chosen to apply in an
19:12
arbitration that may be less of of a
19:15
hurdle than being stuck in courts
19:19
where there's a lot of uncertainty about
19:21
outcome so I guess one strategic
19:24
thing that I might mention is that where
19:26
there is a choice between pressing for a
19:28
particular law or pressing for a
19:30
particular place of arbitration seed of
19:32
arbitration
19:33
that it might be worth thinking
19:35
seriously about the importance of the
19:36
place of arbitration
19:38
okay
19:40
that makes a lot of sense because even
19:41
if you have the you may not be able if
19:43
you choose governing law the courts
19:45
themselves where you're sitting might be
19:47
not applied the same way may not apply
19:49
it fairly
19:50
there could be a lot of factors that go
19:52
on in bias at least if it's in a venue
19:54
that you think you can get a fair shot
19:55
or potentially can learn governing the
19:57
law better might be a better trade-off
19:59
yeah I
20:00
totally agree with that yeah
20:02
interesting so
20:04
what other tips do you have it seems
20:05
like you work a lot when I read your
20:07
profile in China Korea Japan of course
20:10
talk to us a little bit about what
20:12
it's like to I guess I mean what are the
20:14
legal systems there you know with
20:17
how friendly are they to contracts to
20:19
transparency to different issues
20:21
and law
20:22
yeah good so there's of course a lot
20:24
of variance between the different
20:27
state the different countries in in Asia
20:30
but I would say for probably for people
20:32
watching this and for your
20:35
your clients I think it's important to
20:37
talk to um
20:39
to local council if at all possible or
20:41
at least to parties who have experience
20:43
in the particular jurisdiction where
20:45
there's a
20:46
business activity that's possible or an
20:48
investment that's possible to get
20:50
specific advice because there is quite a
20:53
lot of variance from
20:55
for example from Japan to China
20:59
one I guess one thing I would say is
21:03
even the idea of contract culturally can
21:05
be different as you move from one
21:07
country to the next so the importance
21:10
for example of a huge amount of detail
21:12
in contract that sort of we have
21:15
as U.S. trained lawyers it might it
21:19
might not be that way in in an asian
21:21
jurisdiction where things are a little
21:23
bit more bare bones and a lot goes
21:25
unsaid in the contract so at least in
21:27
terms of contracting i think it's it's
21:30
useful to to get to speak to someone
21:32
who actually has experience with a
21:34
particular jurisdiction to avoid any any
21:37
potential problems
21:39
that makes sense because we definitely i
21:41
mean often i'm asked if we're charged by
21:43
the minute or the word or you know
21:46
you know we're always concerned
21:47
especially i don't know if it's a common
21:48
law issue because because we deal with
21:50
common laws so we're trying to cover we
21:53
meant this we meant that just in case
21:55
this you know because we're trying to
21:57
avoid certain precedences
21:58
in either state or federal depending
22:00
on those circumstances
22:02
so it's a little bit of a it might be it
22:04
might be i might look crazy if i bring
22:06
them one of my paragraphs
22:09
you know maybe
22:11
else so that makes all the sense i mean
22:14
how did you i mean how do i guess is
22:16
it
22:17
i mean is there
22:18
do most business people there do they
22:20
like in china let's say for instance do
22:22
they use a lot of the court systems or
22:23
do you use the arbitration systems more
22:25
do you have have any knowledge as to
22:26
whether there's a preference
22:29
in the east as to like the use of courts
22:31
versus arbitration
22:32
yeah i think they're they're really too
22:35
it depends on the jurisdiction so
22:37
singapore when when speaking about east
22:40
asia southeast asia
22:41
has really taken off as a hub for
22:45
international arbitration and that's had
22:47
knock-on effects in in the region so
22:50
companies are increasingly comfortable
22:52
with the idea of arbitrating disputes
22:54
they may have wanted to push towards the
22:56
courts
22:58
previously um
23:00
and the same kind of thing i'm most
23:02
familiar with with japan i will pretend
23:04
to be an expert in all these different
23:05
jurisdictions
23:06
but in japan historically there hasn't
23:09
been a whole lot of use of commercial
23:11
arbitration or investment arbitration
23:14
but recently there have been lots of
23:16
different initiatives to try and promote
23:19
the use of arbitration and they do seem
23:21
to be getting some some traction
23:24
so i think i think it's sort of a mixed
23:26
bag in terms of how much uptake there is
23:29
for arbitration but i think the general
23:32
trend in this part of the world is an
23:35
increase in the number of arbitrations
23:37
and then also an
23:38
increasing interest it seems to me in
23:40
the use of mediation both as a way of
23:43
avoiding arbitration outright or
23:46
better managing arbitration once the
23:49
arbitration is underway
23:51
okay
23:52
and do you have any other
23:53
recommendations for arbitration or i
23:55
mean i know you don't want to get
23:56
preferences you work with a lot of them
23:58
but do you find any maybe from a
23:59
business point of view a commercial
24:00
point of view are there different
24:02
arbitrational seats organizations
24:06
that are maybe more suited for um
24:08
business transactions or international
24:10
transactions in Asia any specific
24:13
ones you can recommend or there might be
24:15
ones better than the other for certain
24:16
cases or certain situations
24:18
right well I think I think with with
24:21
with Japan there’s the Japan
24:23
commercial arbitration association and
24:26
so Japanese counterparties to contracts
24:28
will be very familiar with this
24:30
institution
24:31
so that might be worth putting on the
24:33
table it's an institution that's
24:35
undergone a lot of recent change with
24:38
modernization of their rules by
24:40
increasing their staff
24:43
and by becoming increasingly transparent
24:45
24:46
they've taken a lot of steps recently to
24:48
provide information to the public about
24:50
the way they operate and about the the
24:53
the arbitrators who worked on the cases
24:55
in the past so for Japan I think
24:57
that's always an option that's worth
25:00
for Japan related business I think it's
25:02
always an option worth putting on the
25:04
table i think otherwise the obvious
25:06
choice would be
25:08
would be Hong Kong and Singapore
25:10
in
25:11
in particular Singapore, Singapore really
25:13
stands out in this part of the world so
25:15
both the institution the Singapore
25:17
international arbitration center um
25:20
and also, the
25:23
the platform for arbitration are
25:25
really sophisticated so there are great
25:28
hearing facilities within Singapore
25:31
where arbitration hearings can take
25:33
place the Singapore institution
25:36
is very international so there's a
25:38
governing body that's made up of
25:40
arbitration practitioners from around
25:43
the world
25:44
so it truly is an a an
25:47
international organization with a
25:49
very sophisticated secretariat and the
25:52
number of cases that they administer
25:53
keeps increasing and
25:56
within even
25:57
the Asia-Pacific region there's often an
26:01
an instinctive choice of Singapore even
26:04
where there's a local institution like
26:06
like here in Japan or in Korea there may
26:09
be a sort of instinctive preference for
26:11
Singapore because they've just done so
26:12
well with arbitration recently and
26:15
that's not to denigrate the Japanese
26:17
institution of Korean institution which
26:19
are both excellent but i think parties
26:21
just because of for historical reasons
26:23
are often most comfortable with
26:24
Singapore
26:26
and very interesting great tips we love
26:28
it because we don't we won't always know
26:31
that's what we're going to lean on
26:32
people like you for that expertise and
26:34
to help us navigate sometimes and if
26:36
anyone needs any assistance it helps
26:38
people know where to go and maybe where
26:40
to start so some tips for practitioners
26:42
and business people alike because i know
26:44
a lot of business owners too and
26:46
and CEOs and directors and they're
26:48
always looking at what how can we
26:49
improve things or if we want to go into
26:51
a certain area how do we deal with
26:52
certain issues so they're also
26:54
interested in this information as well
26:57
yes yeah
26:59
well it was a pleasure I I think we got
27:01
through our questions sort of um
27:03
you know like this but we got through
27:05
them
27:07
so
27:08
I want to thank you so much for coming
27:09
on would you like anything else with
27:11
the audience or anything else that we
27:13
even thought of about tips or anything
27:16
no i think i think just maybe because we
27:17
began with
27:19
investment treaties I think one thing
27:22
that listeners of this might try
27:24
and keep in mind is that there may be
27:26
treaty protection
27:28
behind their commercial activity even
27:30
that they're not aware about
27:33
and it may actually have relevance to
27:35
how
27:36
investments are structured so it may be
27:38
for example that to take advantage of an
27:40
investment treaty it would make more
27:42
sense to organize the investment through
27:45
a subsidiary in a country that has lots
27:48
of treaties with favorable conditions to
27:50
investors so maybe maybe that's my
27:53
closing thought is that sometimes this
27:55
investment treaty system is under
27:58
utilized or not well known to certain
28:00
investors so I think for from the
28:02
investors perspective it's worth doing a
28:04
little homework to find out what kind of
28:06
treaty protection there is and how the
28:08
investments can be structured to take
28:09
advantage of these treaties
28:12
that's a great tip didn't even think
28:13
about it i didn't even think of that
28:15
that would be
28:16
great that's wonderful that's why we
28:17
have you on
28:19
so
28:20
okay that was a great tip i didn't even
28:22
right when you're saying it my light
28:23
bulb went off and i was like oh
28:26
so wonderful
28:28
thank you very much i thank you so much
28:30
for coming on we appreciate it so much
28:31
Mr. Claxton and I it must be early
28:33
there right early in the morning no it's
28:35
it's a very civilized seven 7 30
28:38
in the morning so it's really it's
28:39
really no problem
28:42
well thank you for
28:43
being up early with us you know
28:46
this morning
28:47
thank you thank you so much maybe we can
28:49
do it again someday in in in Miami if I
28:52
have the good fortune to be in Miami yes
28:54
let us know if you're going to be here
28:55
we'd love to do it in person and if
28:57
i can get down to Japan we'll do
28:59
something there too I’d love to like we
29:00
talked about it beautiful time of year
29:02
to come indeed you're warmly welcome
29:04
yeah thank you thanks very much you're
29:07
welcome thank you
29:08
okay bye everyone